From narrative influence to political and financial power, how and by whom power is held and shaped is a defining factor in our shared future. How can innovators and change leaders examine, confront, and reimagine structures of power to foster more just and inclusive societies for all?
At the 2024 Skoll World Forum, five change leaders explored ways to rethink power and build a better future. The conversation often turned to racial equity and justice, domestically and globally, and the role of collaboration and representation in shifting power dynamics at the systems level. Panelists also zoomed in on the experiences of Black women and gender expansive people in social and political activism, as well as the need for more political representation for women in Mexico. Ultimately, they agreed, shifting power is vital work that requires moral imagination, compelling narratives, and widespread unity and intersectionality.
Watch the full session and read the transcript below to learn more from Hakima Abbas, co-founder and co-executive director of the Black Feminist Fund; Desirée Cormier Smith, special representative for racial equity and justice for the United States Department of State; EunSook Lee, executive director of AAPI Civic Engagement Fund, and Mónica Tapia Álvarez, co-founder and strategy coordinator for Aúna Mexico. Moderated by Paula Moreno, founder and president of Manos Visibles.
Transcript from “Reshaping Power for a Shared Future,” filmed on April 12, 2024 at the Skoll World Forum:
Paula Moreno: Let me, first of all, thank the Skoll Foundation for this important event. It’s the final day. And it’s so important that we are having this conversation, this final day, thinking — in this process of thinking, rethinking, redesigning, reinventing ourselves. That has been this whole week.
And when we talk about reshaping power, I was thinking, walking — getting into this room, the Nelson Mandela rooms — I remember a quote of Nelson Mandela, that many changes occur or happen by persuasion, but most of them by the exercise of power. And I was thinking what Mandela, if he was alive, would think of today in terms of sustained power, in terms of maintaining power, in terms of what kind of power. There are different ways of power, and we are also concerned about the relativity of power. The power that we thought it has a particular way, a particular influence. And also, I was thinking about a metaphor in terms of power that was ‘the doors and the keys.’ There are still so many doors that are closed, that are locked, that we believe that we unlocked and then they again lock, or maybe they open up for a while, some people get in, but then they close.
And so, this exercise of power, I think, it’s one of the great dilemmas that we have in order to build a better future, to share a better future. And so I just wanted to open up this conversation, just reflecting on that.
And I hope this conversation is very useful for all of us who are here, because we are in a moment in history that we need to retool, to reanimate, to recreate, redirect because there are so many urgent things in this world. And even if we haven’t stopped working, there is still too much to be done, and I hope that this session is very useful in that regard.
We will have three main moments. The first one, I just want each of these amazing women to analyze power in different ways. Then we will have another question about the future, if we have enough time. And finally, we’ll have a Q&A and a final session of conclusions from all the panelists. So that would be the main structure.
So let me start by– I will introduce each of them and immediately make questions because I want them to have time to structure their ideas, to share their ideas with you. So I will make an introduction. I please ask you; they have very long bios. So I was like, please read it online and visit their website and follow them. So I would like to make these introductions just talking about how each of these women are building power, and effective power. So when we are talking about reshaping, we are talking about their power that they are building in the world.
And let me start with Hakima, as Founder of the Black Feminist Fund. I had the great pleasure, as a member of the Board of Ford Foundation, to meet Hakima three years ago, even before this fund became the structure that you will hear the numbers now. So it’s so beautiful when we meet. We look at each other and we say, “Okay, the vision that you had when we met three years ago has materialized, and I will tell you the facts.”
So, Hakima has a very wide experience in terms of transnational power, in terms of the feminist movement, and she’s the Co-Founder of the Black Feminist Fund. That is the first and only global fund dedicated to resources, Black feminist movements around the world. In the first two years, the fund has supported 72 groups in 44 countries with over $15 million invested, building a network of Black feminists in philanthropy with more than 200 members. And the aim — and we were talking about that, Hakima — I was like, “Hakima, what is the aim of this decade of the fund?” And I was like, “It’s $100 million?” And she said, “At least $100 million US, because we need too much money to invest in all these movements.”
So let me then open the floor to Hakima to talk about the power of women — that is one of the powers that is reshaping this world — the power of Black women, and the power of philanthropy as well. That has been a recurrent topic during these days. So, my dear Hakima, the floor is yours.
Hakima Abbas: Thank you. Thank you so much, Paula. As you said, I’m going to talk about the question of power in relationship to philanthropy and Black feminists, but I imagine that this is applicable to many of the folks that you are working with. The word philanthropy comes from the Greek for loving people, but as we know, philanthropy’s much more complex than that. Much of the wealth that comes — that has created the philanthropy of today comes from the exploitation of Black and other oppressed peoples, bodies, lands, and labor. Too much of philanthropy today reinforces that asymmetry of power between those who have and those who don’t.
So philanthropy, at times, can provide a benevolent veneer to inequality itself. And philanthropy is not monolithic. So there are large swaths of philanthropy that goes to agendas that are against the just world. We know, for example, that the Global Philanthropy project said that three times the amount that goes to LGBT movements goes to the anti-gender movement worldwide. Trillions of dollars are channeled to agendas that are against bodily autonomy, reproductive rights, just economies, and for the planet. And even those who claim to support just worlds are not putting their money where their principles are. ODA, for example, to support women’s rights organizations has dropped by 25% in the last year. We know that the assets that DAFs hold has increased by 400% over the last 10 years, but the amount that goes to working charities is decreasing. Only 0.1% — it’s always terrible when you have to say “zero point,” but anyway, 0.1% of all Foundation’s funding, globally, goes to Black women, girls, and trans folks.
So why is that? Philanthropies are built from the imagination of those with power. So anti-Blackness, patriarchy, ableism, classism is deeply encoded in the assumptions, in the approaches, and in the unwritten rules of philanthropy. Philanthropy has a coding problem, and the Black Feminist Fund is here to hack it. We’re making an intervention in philanthropy from the radical imagination, the principles, and the practices of Black feminisms.
So I’m going to just tell you, if I may, Paula, just three ways in which we’re kind of breaking the code. Number one, size matters. Sixty-one percent of Black feminist groups have budgets of under $50,000 a year. Philanthropy is demanding of Black women and gender-expansive people to change the world on a dime. And we’re not only asking them to create change, but we’re also telling them to scale it up, to scale it wide, to scale it deep. So the Black Feminist Fund, we’re talking, spend about grand sizes that are impactful.
I’ll give you an example. There’s a group, in Kenya that we support, of deaf women, and they had an annual budget of $70,000 US a year and had only ever received project funding. They applied for a grant of $50,000 from us. We gave them $100,000 US of core unrestricted funding. Philanthropy talks of absorptive capacity. And a common rule is not to be the largest funder of a group because of sustainability in the long term. So we make our commitments for eight years, from the outset.
And you can imagine what that allows for a group in terms of the planning, the strategizing, and the implementation and the execution of the work. We’re there through the mistakes, through the experiments and the failures, the achievements, the wins.
And we believe that it’s our job, not theirs, to ensure that our funding and support creates a pipeline so that they can reach their financial goals after the eight years. And we’re going to measure ourselves against that commitment. I’m excited. This is a side note, but they’re creating a– But I don’t think we need the applause. What they’re doing is creating a shelter for Black deaf women and gender-expansive people who have experienced violence. Can you imagine what that looks like? Many of us can’t because it hasn’t yet been done, and we’re really excited to see what that looks like.
So, the second area I’d like to talk about is risk. Black women and gender-expansive people create change at great risks to themselves. Marielle Franco, Maria Bernadete Pacifico, Nokuthula Mabaso, Elizabeth Ibrahim Ekaru. These are all Black women and gender-expansive people who have been murdered because of the work that they’ve done in recent years. They’ve worked on defending lands, advocating for impoverished communities, and challenging hegemonic power. Black feminists all around the world, they know all too well that, with every movement, there’s a counter.
Now, you’ll remember 2020, with the uprisings against police violence in the US, that it was suddenly a conversation in philanthropy to talk about white supremacy and Black liberation. But just yet, four years in, with the pushback suddenly becoming real to those who weren’t paying much attention before, I’m getting calls from other funders who are worried about bad publicity, who are worried about being sued for supporting Black work or transwork, for talking about abortion, or talking about feminism even.
When it’s risky, not when it’s trendy, is when philanthropy needs to show up. I want to get calls. I want to get the call that says, “What can we do? How do we stand in the way of these attacks?” Risk has always been part of creating a more just world, and it’s time for philanthropy to flank the people who are creating it. Related to that, I was asked the question yesterday in one of the sessions, “What brings funders to new issues?”
And I think about those inflection moments, Black Lives Matter, the Me Too movement, and even The Mobilizations for Bread and Dignity in North Africa, and at this moment, the Mobilizations Against Femicide in Kenya. These are moments of movement visibility which do bring funders to an issue. In fact, it has them scrambling to an issue. But the scramble doesn’t keep them in that space. Philanthropy has to stay the course. And one of the ways that, of course, we are staying the course is with these eight-year commitments. But these moments of visibility are also when crisis is visible to those in power. And it’s often centered around death, around the visibility of violence. And my brilliant partner in this work, Tynesha McHarris, talks about mobilizing not only around Black death, but around Black joy, and Black freedom.
Paula Moreno: Let me, Hakima, just connect the rest of the group with this idea that you are developing, because I feel that Monica from Mexico is very connected to the idea that you are– And we can come back later to develop more these arguments. And I would like to move from Ghana, where you are based and you are the– And you told me it’s not the president, it’s not the head. We have a horizontal structure, but you are leading this from Accra, from Ghana. Let us move to Mexico and to Latin America where you have also been working.
And I would like to introduce Monica Tapia that is a coalition builder, leadership practitioner, and policy advocate on gender and social justice. Monica leads Aúna, an organization redefining political representation of women in Mexico. Just this morning, I was talking to Monica and say, “Okay, give me the numbers of this year.” And she was saying, “No, we have a small group of 500 women that we have been trained, and 75 are running for office. You know, it’s so small.” And I was like, “Okay, Monica. Okay, okay.” And of course, it’s small in terms of what we want, the transformation that we want.
And so I would like to have this conversation because Mexico is facing a very interesting moment, because we have two women as presidential candidates. We have the president of the Supreme Court, the Senate, and the electoral council are women. So there is a power structure that has been changed given the parity reforms that you have advocated, that Aúna and other organizations have been pushing for.
So I wanted to just connect to Hakima’s conversation more from the power of philanthropy, the power of Black women to the power of women and political power. What does it mean? How do you see if this goes beyond representation and is creating social change? And is this power effective in the way that we want? So I would like you to come into this conversation and reflection on this regard.
Monica Tapia Alvarez: Well, thank you, Paula, amazing ideas that will sprout up from this, and thank you to Skoll Foundation, philanthropic foundation, for this invitation. And let me just talk two minutes about parity. So parity means we have to have 50% women as candidates. So parties are forced to have this. It’s not a quota. It’s really a parity, that is what’s it’s called. And we have a lot of regulations, sanctioning parties that do not do it. So finally, they are complying, which is an amazing thing.
And not just candidates or elected positions, but cabinets and even judiciary power, so courts, and as well, electoral authorities. So there are a lot of women that have to come into power. So this June, we will vote 10,000 women. So that’s why when I say, I mean, 500 is very small yet– because we need all these women to get into power, municipal level, state level, federal level. However, there’s still a long way to go to have gender equality in politics.
And we have this big theory of chase that I will warn you about, but I just want to talk about foreign obstacles for this equality. First, when women get into politics — and when I say massively, it means a lot of women are getting there — they have the message that they are intruders into this arena, and that they don’t belong there. So what we really need to shape, it’s this cultural shift that, yes, we are a community of women who can enter politics, that it is their place to be there, that yes, they can, that yes, it’s okay to be tired and frustrated and take a break, but you should not quit. That’s a very important message. So we say that we help women to get into power, but also stay in power.
And the second thing that we say is that getting the public office — the public position, the elected position — it’s not power, it’s just an office. Sometimes you have these women who have their political godfathers, fathers, their fathers-in-law, uncles, even husbands next door being the real power broker, the one that’s doing politics, the one that makes decisions. So we need women to really be autonomous of this, develop leadership skills and, of course, have the skills as well to be self-confident, have the emotional intelligence to do it, and to feel secure. And I really liked just in the talk about the weaknesses that sometimes we feel as women as strengths. So we’d really work on that. Thirdly, sometimes women are so– it’s so difficult to get into power and it’s so energy consuming that, once they are there, they kind of forgot what they were going to be doing next.
So it’s very important to develop an agenda of policy proposals, of transformations from the very beginning, and this is what we offer as well. We do online courses, peer-to-peer learning, and also a bigger ecosystem of civil society experts helping them to do policy proposals to bring on a team of people that can help them implement, deliver those reforms so that they just don’t get into power but that they transform power and policy. And, I want to say, both things. And finally, the fourth thing that we do is that we’ve learned that we have to work with all political parties.
This has been controversial, of course. It’s like, are you going to have a progressive agenda with right-wing parties? And we say, yes, yes, we do. We have a good selection criteria. We find the key-people there. And we’re having also women from within those parties and those groups having an internal conversation that will help to shift this. And this we learned it from the previous, let’s say, first, second wave of feminists that brought us this legacy of parity, that the inter-party consensus and coalition building was very important.
That’s why we also trained for a special kind of style of leadership, which means to do the bridging, to do the collaborations, to think how the other people can come to the table. And also, it’s a daily practice. We have this motto that we say, “We are diverse, but together.” So diversas y juntas. It’s Spanish. And we keep saying it all over again because even the chats and everywhere, we fight, we have conflict. That’s fine, but we have to remember that we are together, we are diverse, and we are together.
Paula Moreno: Thank you, Monica. And then let me now introduce you to EunSook Lee, that is the Executive Director of the Asian American and Pacific Islander Civic Engagement Fund, founded to boost the infrastructure of more than 50 local Asian American and Pacific Islander organizations, and that have made more than $40 million in grants to support this infrastructure and to correct the unequal distribution of resources with less than 1% of US philanthropic dollars going to this community.
EunSook has a very, very interesting bio and path, and we have been talking about how is this multiracial democracy that we are all talking about. And we, during this, it’s called forum, we have been talking about democracy as an exercise. What are the new models for democracy? What are the new ways of democracy? So I would like to talk to you about the political powers of Asian Americans, even that we are in a very critical year. And how are you working for building this future of democracy? How are you working for doing that?
EunSook Lee: Thank you, Paula. So I think I’ll start by talking about, in terms of how we see political power, there are three facets to it. First, is voting power. And for any community to be able to say that they are a voting block means that they have significant numbers and that they have shared policy views. Second, is governing power. And governing power is having the ability to hold elected officials accountable, and having the influence and relationships to make sure that policies and laws that you care about are made to happen. And third, is electoral power, and it’s about being able to elect people who represent your values and also are capable of engaging in policy debates to make sure that, again, policies and laws reflect what you care about.
So, in talking about those three facets and talking specifically about the AAPI community — and I do feel that what I share, to some degree, is relevant to other racial minority groups in the United States, but first, on the AAPI community, AAPIs represent East Asians, Southeast Asians, South Asians, those who are from the Pacific Islands and the Philippines. There are 25 million, and AAPIs are the fastest-growing racial group in the country.
And the rate of civic engagement is growing faster than their demographic growth. And the most recent studies we’ve seen, both on polling and data, shows us that they are younger than any other racial group in terms of voting population. It’s changed a lot since what we may have known about the community. And at the same time, there has been historic low participation of AAPIs, both voter registration and turnout.
And there are, I would say, many factors, but I’ll point out five specific ones. One, is that a significant percentage of AAPIs are immigrants and refugees, which means that they’re not familiar with the voting process. And without attention to a support or a system, they are left out. Two, is voter suppression, which I’m sure you know what that means. It’s voter suppression in different forms, has existed in US history for quite a long time.
An example of how it affects AAPIs is, one, is that, for example, there are laws that allow for language access if you represent a certain percentage, but oftentimes cities and states don’t allow or don’t provide language access to voters. Others are rules, like there was a, say, a proposal in Georgia for exact name match. In other words, if your name didn’t exactly match the voting rules, then you would be deemed ineligible. My own name is butchered all the time. So I would’ve– So it’s something common for many people who don’t have common names, but those are the kind of ways that voter suppression works in the US.
Third, is that AAPIs are a racial minority. And so as a racial minority, they are experiencing — whether they’re othered, or stereotyped, or treated as foreigners. We’re told not only, “Where do you come from?” but “Go back to where you came from.” And so what that means is that it does affect your psyche and the sense of belonging. So I would say that, generally speaking, AAPIs are politically homeless.
And the fifth reason is what you mentioned earlier, is that less than 1% — so again, 0.3%, to that — of US philanthropic dollars go to AAPI communities. And not to say that it goes necessarily more to Black and Latino and other communities, just to be clear. But again, there is a lack of resources and investment in making sure that AAPI communities turn out. So that is why we exist. We have a C3, which is the AAPI Civic Engagement Fund. We have a C4, which is a Power fund. And combined, we’re their largest multi-entity organization that provides over $40 million, to date, to local AAPI community groups around the country.
We not only provide them with funding, but we also provide technical assistance. Because money alone, as much as it is important, doesn’t in any way build a movement and it doesn’t build capacity. There also is an access to tools, knowing who the players are, and all of that that we provide support for. And this year alone, we’re making $7.5 million in grants, which is a lot, but it’s not because $3 billion is going to be spent on the election. So you can see how much we do with little.
And we are fighting on working towards having a national voice for AAPIs, but our strategy is local because there is never a national without local. And particularly when you think of the AAPI community, as I mentioned all the different dimensions, is that they’re concentrated in different areas. So if you want to reach the Hmong, whether they’re in Wisconsin or Minnesota, the Filipinos who are dominant in Arizona and Nevada, or the Indian Americans in Michigan, if you don’t fund the local groups, you’re not really reaching the AAPI community.
So the organizations that we support, over 50 around the country, they are the political homes for the community. They provide services, they have youth programs, and they do a range of support so that they become the place that you go to when you register to vote and need to make decisions on how to vote. In addition to the funding that we provide, we do work on narrative issues, narrative change. We support a range of independent artists to do work to also energize and represent the community. We do research because there’s a lack of research on the community, and we also focus on the leadership of the organizations. As I mentioned, we support over 50 groups. Over 90% are led by AAPI women. And that is really the face of leadership in our community. And so often, as we’ve mentioned, there is never a time to also balance life. And so for example, one of the newest programs we’re doing is a sabbatical fund for the leaders of the organizations we support.
Paula Moreno: EunSook, I would like to ask you about this, that we have this conversation about this, the power of multiracial democracy that you were really reflecting on. So I would like, just before passing the floor to Desiree, just to have your final thoughts about that.
EunSook Lee: So one thing just to say is, our impact is that we have had the highest rate of turnout in 2020 compared to 2016, and I recognize that we are in a very important election year, seven months away from an election where what we know is at stake is greater than ever in terms of the threats to democracy and how authoritarianism is being masked as patriotism. And we have significant disinformation and propaganda that is being fielded at us.
And when we talk about multiracial democracy, we see our role as making sure that not only are AAPIs fully participants in the democracy. But it’s not just how we vote, it’s also what we perceive as the future of this country, or the US, I should say. And in looking at that and understanding democracy’s people power, we do also look at racial justice and how our AAPIs, not only working to represent their community, but also taking in account the history of injustice in this country.
Oh, sorry, I keep saying “in this country.” I recognize I’m in the UK. And for that reason, I just want to say a little bit around, we work also to encourage the community to understand racial injustice in terms of racial hierarchy of our community, of the different populations, and recognizing that while AAPIs do suffer from discrimination and racism., at the same time, it’s hierarchical and we’re not at the bottom the way Black communities are, for example.
And so, our support, or our work, is not only ensuring that they turn out, but ensuring that AAPI support issues that impact Black communities, for example, the Black-led movement for reparations — in our opinion, that is one way to not only support one community, it’s actually a way to really advance multiracial democracy itself.
Paula Moreno: Thank you. Thank you very much. And so now we are moving to institutional power, and also what is the dimension of this power and how is there intersection with identities. So it is my pleasure to introduce Desiree, that is the US State Department’s representative, special representative for racial equity and justice. Your work is to ensure that the US foreign policy programs and processes advance the power of racial, ethnic, and Indigenous community, building a global agenda to combat systemic racism, discrimination, and xenophobia.
And when I was thinking about this conversation, I was thinking that your work is so important in terms of these 1.5 billion Afro descendants, 5 million Indigenous people that are around the world. We are talking about 2 billion out of the 8 billion people that inhabits this world, and all the racial and communities that are just in this crazy moment in so many ways.
So I want, Desiree, to ask you, how can coalitions, government, civil society, academy, build resources for the future in order to achieve racial equity globally? From a strategic perspective, how do you maintain the momentum and advance racial equity towards equality for the long term? And I will emphasize the momentum because sometimes, as it has been mentioned before, sometimes the momentums are very short and we don’t realize how this is a long-term change and how we need this sustained involvement in the causes that we work for. So, thank you, Desiree.
Desiree Cormier Smith: Yeah. Well, thank you, and thank you so much for including me on this panel because I think far too often, we have these conversations in silos. And while I completely appreciate and respect the power of civil society as truth tellers, as people to hold governments to account, I also appreciate the power of elected officials. It is critical to also include government institutions in these conversations because we have to be a part of them too. We cannot only affect change from the outside. In order for us to actually build real sustainable change, people who are supportive of a just future of rights for all need to be everywhere. We need to be in philanthropy, in private sector, in government, in elected positions, not just in civil society or not just in one sector.
And I have this argument all the time with my colleagues — I was in civil society before I joined — who are still in civil society, that they would never go into government service. And I think that’s the exact wrong approach, because that has impeded progress for so long. We have to be working in tandem on the outside pushing the governments to be more accountable, to be more transparent, to be more respectful of rights, to live up to the stated values, while the folks on the inside are also pulling them along.
So it’s the push-pull factor. In terms of your question of momentum, this is incredibly important because I often say that these problems, in terms of institutional racism, systemic racism, xenophobia, discrimination, they were not created overnight. They were created and built upon over centuries of systemic oppression, of dehumanization of people of African descent, of Indigenous peoples, of Roma peoples, of other marginalized racial and ethnic communities.
And so you’re not going to solve them overnight, but I think far too many people expect quick wins. And in order for us to make real change, we have to steal ourselves. This has to be a generational commitment to change. Sometimes it makes me very sad to think that I’m working on some of the same challenges and injustices that my grandfather spent his life fighting against.
But at the same time, it gives me some comfort because I know that I’m not alone in this work. I’m part of a series. I’ve been passed the baton from my ancestors, and it’s now my turn to run the race as far as I can — not as quickly as I can, but as far as I can — and then, hopefully, pass the baton on to future generations. But pass it on, hopefully, much further from where I started.
And that is the goal. It’s not to somehow think that, at this moment, we are somehow — we have the powers that our ancestors didn’t have to solve all of these challenges at once. I think that would be in incredibly insane of someone to think. I think it is now our time to take advantage of this window of opportunity that we have that is narrowly closing. As Hakima mentioned, we saw in 2020 all of these stated commitments, all of the Black squares posted on Instagram, all of these promises and acknowledgements and weird ceremonies of people washing Black people’s feet to atone for the sins of their ancestors. That has really– That’s gone away. And now we see this backlash against wokeness, against any kind of inclination that the history of America, global history, the history of institutions, were built on the backs of Black people and Indigenous people because it makes certain people uncomfortable.
And so we have to find ways, again, from our respective corners, whether it’s in government, whether it’s in civil society, whether it’s in elected positions, academia, philanthropy, from wherever, to steel ourselves and find ways to support each other from those respective perches to continue the fight together and to know that we’re not alone. The unfortunate reality is that, because a lot of the government institutions in countries where we are not dominant, where we are members of marginalized communities, many of us find ourselves still to be the only ones. And so it’s easy to feel like you are alone, like you don’t have the power to speak up against these injustices, like you are a token.
And so that’s why I think representation is important, but representation alone is not power. And I think that is incredibly important to remember, especially when folks who are against rights and who are against just societies often use members of marginalized communities to show that they are not racist, they are not sexist. And so it is also not safe to assume that just because a person is of African descent, or just because a person is Indigenous, or just because a person is a woman, that they share the politics of liberation of that community. And so that is also, I think, critically important. And I will end there because I see your nods are getting really strong.
Paula Moreno: How lucky I have been to spend time with these women to reflect, to think together. And as you can see, they are doing the work. They are building powers, and to a mere extent, living in a future. They’re building today the future, the future they want to live in, and for the new generations as you are mentioning, Desiree. Living with all the contradictions, finding path in different ways, because many of us who have been in government, who have been in civil society, who have been in international cooperations, many of us, we are all trying from different perspective to open the doors and to have the keys that sometimes we realize we don’t have the keys. Even if we believe that we have the keys, we don’t have the keys. And also building for others to have those keys in the future. So, how lucky I am.
So, before we go to our Q&A, I just want to leave a question for the audience and for us that we won’t have time because we want really to have this exchange. What does a shared future look like? If it’s just one minute for all of us, what does a shared future look like in a present that’s so intense? We really wanted, as a group, ask you that question. How are we seeing that in a critical moment in the world? So I just want to leave that question because we don’t have time for that. And hopefully, and I feel the answers will come next week after all these great experiences that we have had during this week. And so I would like to open the floor for questions. I think the team is here, so if you can just raise your hand if you have a question.
Hakima Abbas: We already have one.
Paula Moreno: Yeah, second one, yes. Please wait for the microphone. Yeah. And I would like your questions to be questions very precise, just to make sure that we have time to answer. Yes? Thank you.
Unknown Speaker 1: It’s comment, not a question, if that’s okay.
Paula Moreno: Okay. Okay.
Unknown Speaker 1: I love the title about Reshaping Power and not using the word Empowerment, because we have Power. It’s just that it’s about resharing it in the right way, in the equitable way. The way I imagine the future would be, a day where we don’t need to have a Woman’s Day, where we don’t need to have a Black History Month, where we don’t need to have LGBTQI Month, where every day is a day of celebration of all our differences and commonalities, as well. Thank you.
Paula Moreno: Thank you. Here. It’s here.
Minh Dang: Hi. My question is– So, Minh Dang, Executive Director and Founder of Survivor Alliance, network of survivors of human trafficking and forced labor around the world. My question is, what strategies have you seen for oppressed folks coming into their power and embracing the oppressive tactics? Because we are new to experiencing power and trying to unlearn that because we don’t see as many leaders enacting new ways of sharing power.
Paula Moreno: Wow. Okay.
Elena: Hi, everyone. Hi, everyone. I’m Elena from Colombia and a Black woman, of course. And I wanted to say thank you, all of you, because I really feel represented in this panel and all the intersectionality across me really feel represented here. And I just want to make a question because I grew up listening the world like, we have to power and change narrative, have power. I want to ask you, how change the narrative can give population and communities power to transform the way that we are doing politics, and how we can put people for our communities in those places of taking decisions? Thank you so much.
Paula Moreno: Thank you, Elena.
Anna Lucia: Hi everyone. Is it on? Okay. Hi, everyone. I’m Anna Lucia from Peru. Thank you. Again, I feel very represented by all of you. I have a question about what you were saying, that having representation does not necessarily mean that the people from those communities are going to push those agendas. What are your views? How are you trying to fight against this new era, especially of conservative women, pushing agendas and legislation to set back all the advancements we’ve been doing in terms of women’s rights and ownership of our own bodies and that? Because that is very common, at least in Latin America and Peru, for example. How are you seeing this issue, and what can we do to stop representative women pushing agendas that are sending us back decades?
Paula Moreno: Okay. Do we have a final one? Yes.
Zuki: Good morning, everybody. My name is Zuki, from South Africa. I think for me, one thing I’ve learned over my short lifetime of being a young leader is that power consists nothing unless it’s contested. So what’s the incentive for those who have power to give up power so that power can be shared and reshaped?
Paula Moreno: Wow. Okay. Okay, my dear ladies. So who will come first?
Desiree Cormier Smith: I can start. Because I think actually the last question, which is a really tough one, somehow, I am connecting that one to the question about narrative, because it reminds me of a conversation that I was having yesterday in one of the lunch sessions about all means all, and building institutions that work for all. And in that session, we talked about the power of narrative, which also was connected to a morning session I went to yesterday, on Indigenous storytelling and the power of narratives from the perspective of our own communities.
And I think the reason why these two questions are connected, in my mind, is because I think we have fallen into the trap of a narrative that doesn’t sell what we’re — it doesn’t make compelling what we’re trying to sell to all sides. Because it sounds scary. We are saying to people who are used to having privilege and power that, “You’re going to have to give something up.” No one’s going to want that. Instead of selling it as, “This is a big party where everyone can be free to live up to their full potential. That’s good for you, that’s good for me, that’s good for all of us.”
The other side, the anti-right’s side, actually has a really compelling narrative. It’s not true, but it’s very compelling, because it’s based on fear. It’s based on they’re trying to take this away from you even though they might not have anything to take away. But somehow the other side has convinced them that it’s such a scary side because it’s a scary future, because all of the things you have, all of your so-called power, all of your so-called riches or whatever you have, is going to be taken away by these scary people of color who are going to do to you what we’ve done to them.
And that’s not the future we’re looking for. We are looking for a shared future where anyone can live up to their full potential, where the race or ethnicity you happen to be born doesn’t dictate how long you are going to live, where the race or ethnicity you happen to be born doesn’t dictate the likelihood of you getting shot by police — whether that’s in Brazil, the United States, or in Europe, because that’s not just an American phenomenon. It’s a problem in my country, but it’s not unique to my country.
And so, I think part of our challenge is to rebuild the narrative, is to reshape the narrative. And that is hard because what we are trying to build has never been done before. And so, it relies on the power of imagination. And a lot of people don’t really think of imagination when we’re talking about institutions or the future of power, or elections. When we’re asking people to flex this muscle that they rarely use when talking about policy, and that is a muscle of imagination, and it has to come from a place of love. I believe this work is rooted in love. I believe equity is love.
And I think people innately do it for the people they love, but when they hear racial equity, it is somehow scary because the other side has co-opted the narrative that racial equity means they’re coming for you. They are coming for your things that you don’t even have, but they’re coming for you. And so, I really– So that is my challenge as you think about the tough question that Paula asked. What does a shared future look like? I would also add to that question, what does that narrative look like? How do we sell it so that it’s not just people of color working for that future? It’s everyone working for that future because it’s actually good for them and for us.
Paula Moreno: Great. Hakima.
Hakima Abbas: Can I follow Desiree? Just because I want to plus-one a lot of everything that she said. I sincerely believe that in the act of transformation, imagination is a battleground, and we need to be able to inspire through that imagination and really build our imagination of what a just world can look like. But one of the things that you said also around the anti-rights and that they have a narrative that’s compelling, but they also have a tactic that I find really interesting is that they start with the outrageous. They go all the way. They don’t water it down. And I’m often frustrated by how progressive narratives often start with a concession. We start with what we think is palatable, or polite, or going to be acceptable. What if we said liberation for all? What if we just put it out there, what that vision would look like in all its manifestations, and see how compelling that could be, and see whether–
And indeed, I think some people would feel the sense of loss, but there would also be many people who would feel this sense of inspiration. And I sincerely believe in the power of the oppressed, and I think Desiree touched on though, that just because you come from a community that is oppressed, that doesn’t mean you’re necessarily going to put forward the things that are in our interests. I was in the Thatcher Room the other day– Maybe I’ll just leave it at that. But I would be really interested to hear from Monica around how you tackle that, in terms of women in power.
Monica Tapia Alvarez: I’ll go then.
Paula Moreno: Plus two.
Hamika Abbas: We are a team; we are a team.
Paula Moreno: Yes.
Monica Tapia Alvarez: But I want to say how institutions and regulations matter. And I know this is very old thinking, but I want to take it back because I think parity and all the affirmative actions that we have for elected officials have forced parties — and that’s why I say from the right to have women, half of them are women — so they can’t do much since they have to get them elected. LGTB people, sexual diversity, Indigenous women, Afro-Mexican women are there in the right. So obviously they feel really alone and left out within their party, and it’s us that we take them and like, “Yeah, you have to go and make the conversation inside and win, and make the tipping point so that this is mainstream.”
It’s not just one party or the other. It’s not just government or a position. We have to really share power and make multicultural and multi-value, many times democracies and inclusive democracies, but going all that way. And it’s very difficult. I mean, I preach this, but at the same time I’m just like, “I want to go ahead and fight for certain values that I believe.”
And at some point, we just said, “Let’s stop and just listen to them and understand their situation.” So sometimes we would get very good activists that we become like treason by them. I don’t know if you felt this, but we have really good people that will get into politics and they’re like, “Why you are becoming a moderate? Why are you not doing all that’s needed there?” And then we just stop, and then, “Give me your reasons. I want to understand what it looks like to be in that position of power and maybe live a little bit of those ideals, but at the same time be fighting for the next one.”
And I think we learn a lot about this, and it’s very difficult to win always and to win everything. And that’s what we’ve learned in terms of reproductive rights. Obviously, we have an agenda. I mean, this is not leaving everything, and it’s just we do have a progressive agenda on peace-building, on gender equality, on environmental justice. However, these are things we have to really come together so that it becomes mainstream narrative as we have had women’s vote. I mean, when you remember this as women’s votes and women’s suffrages was the political rights to win other battles. So I think we need to really see that, and not forget that these are vehicles to get other rights as well.
Paula Moreno: Sure, and let me jump in for one of the questions because when– I was reflecting on my experience being the first Black woman to be a minister in Columbia and in the history of the country, 15 years ago, and the youngest. And I was extremely scared because I knew people wouldn’t be patient. People wouldn’t– Always, from the beginning, you’re a failure. So it’s really very– It’s so unfair for many of us because 15 years later I’m seeing the same, that when you start you know that people wouldn’t be patient, that people wouldn’t —
Everything you do, your popularity can really disappear in minutes. And I feel we really need to face that reality because, of course, we would like society to change and be a little bit more– Because it’s very unfair on us, that all of us has to be successful, it’s the only time that this door is open, the other generation.
And it’s unfair, but at the same time, what I’m seeing now in Colombia, that we have more ministers, that we have a vice president, many things I never dreamt, I really see that we really need to channel that experience because even if we are more, it is not different. And I feel that we need to understand that. There is still that shared future that you were mentioning, Desiree, where we believe that we are making progress, and we can be ourself, and even if we make mistakes, it’s normal to make mistakes. We are not there yet. And it is harder and the backlash is so, so strong.
So I feel that there are many challenges still, that we need to be aware that part of our work as ancestors of the future is to really help the new generations to prepare for that. Because I feel that, in my lifetime, I won’t see those changes and that shared future, and that we need to keep working for making that normal to– And when I was thinking about that shared future, I was thinking not to be working on these issues, just to say, “Paula, you work on technology,” and it’s not– But It’s there always in your life. And we know if we don’t do something no one will do. So I feel that there are many challenges and I just wanted to share that experience. And we have 10 minutes, so I would like to close first.
EunSook Lee: Did you want an answer?
Paula Moreno: You want to say something? Yeah.
EunSook Lee: No, I think you– Well, I guess the only thing I would add to everything that you all shared that was so important is that I don’t think we can ever lose our connection to power. It’s not just one day when we vote and so on. And if we are encouraging those in our community to run for office and play leadership roles, knowing what we know about the misogyny that we encounter, it’s up to us to make sure we actually continue to stay supportive and work with them. That’s what I think what we mean about governing power itself, is that we don’t stop the activism we do.
And if I can say one more thing about your point about the shared future, there’s Christina Sharpe, in her book, “Ordinary Notes,” talks about how the past fails to stay in the past. And if we don’t account in the current present for what has happened in the past and atone for that, and also make sure our present is so different from the past, our future will not be any different than what we’ve lived through. And narrative power is important and so on. I don’t deny that, but that narrative power also has to do with retelling the truth of what happened and also changing our todays.
Paula Moreno: Thank you. So our final question point and it’s, how to fix the future? No? So your final thoughts on that. So, how are we fixing the future, and what would be your reflection for this audience? Because maybe when we are talking about shared future, it’s not easy to come to that shared future. So how do we fix it?
Hakima Abbas: I have the answer. No, it’s not true. I just want to put something into the mix. All of us have talked about powers that exist, hegemonic powers, the dominant powers that exist, and maybe what we are doing to subvert those or to reshape them, but I do want to add to the mix that many people are creating alternatives. And those alternatives are really important. I know that Black feminists are creating alternatives to economies, to health and political systems, to the ways that we experience safety and peace. And so again, I go back to people’s movements and the power and the importance of supporting, building, doing all we can so that those alternatives actually become the dominant.
Monica Tapia Alvarez: Maybe I’ll go next. So in addition to rules and institutions, also cultural change like narratives and what we talked, but also as a silo of leadership. People that can bridge, people that can create ecosystems. Because I think if you’re alone in power and you break up all your bridges, and people don’t want to talk to you anymore, or people that really think in a systemic vision way that you use those people in power and those representations to bring change and to bring policies and to deliver public goods, and also, I think that’s important. I would say that representation, it’s fundamental, but I think at the end we want the public good, the public services, the redistribution agenda, and that’s what we can’t lose in terms of why policy matters.
EunSook Lee: Well, I think earlier, as I mentioned, is I do think that the past cannot be separated from the present and acknowledging that. And the future is including tomorrow. We are seven months away from an election in the US where as we all probably know; democracy is at severe risk. And we experienced 2016, we experienced 2020. Those of us who lived through it, there was somewhat trauma from that whole experience. I don’t know if you know, we had to do census during the lockdown and the elections was that itself. So I think that in terms of our communities, we’re going to prepare ourselves, train, resource, and protect organizations and communities who are going to be, hopefully, turning out in significant numbers, recognizing how much democracy is at stake in the United States.
Desiree Cormier Smith: I think, at the risk of being redundant, I would just reemphasize something I said earlier in that people who believe in a just world and a world where everyone’s rights and dignity are respected need to be everywhere. We can’t just be siloed off in one sector because we’re never going to affect transformational change just from one sector, whether that is academia, whether that is civil society. We have to be everywhere, and particularly in institutions that were not built for us, which is really, really hard. But we have to be in those places because those are the places where a lot of the power is held. And as we build these alternatives which are incredibly important, we also have to work on the existing structures so that they, at a minimum, stop the harm that they’re causing to our communities.
And so, if you all remember nothing more than what I say is a plea to those of you who, again, believe in a future where everyone’s rights, everyone’s dignity is respected and cherished, and that human beings, regardless of their race or ethnicity, are able to live full lives and live up to their full potential, please consider going into these institutions that have the most power — whether that is private sector, whether that is government institutions, whether that’s the courts. We need to be everywhere, and from those respective purchase, fighting for a more just and equitable future.
Paula Moreno: We have one minute, and I really like that we end this panel smiling because we know we are doing something important. And as Dawn mentioned in one of the first days, we are the help of the world, and we are working, and we are making changes, we are thinking together. So I really want to thank the panelists, this amazing group of women, all of you that are doing amazing work, because there are many people here that are doing amazing work. I hope we all come, recharge, remember each other in the following days, month, because there is a shared future, and we are working today to build it. So, thank you very much. I make it on time.
